Curse

GWnecro · Jan 26, 2009, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Hello to all,

I'm an older GW player, and have been using some good builds that have served me well for a while now.

However, I'm looking for improvement upon my SS build, mainly in the realm of health management, but dealing dmg simultaneously (if possible).

I'm maxed in Curses (16), 11 in Soul Reaping (w/ minor rune) and have 12 unused points I could put into blood.

I attempted using a minor rune for Blood (to up it a point w/o sacrificing health) to raise it up to about 9, then tried using [Vampiric Gaze] and [Vampiric Touch] to help with health while also dealing damage. Honestly, even with Blood up to 9, it didn't seem to be worthwhile, as it didn't really seem to help (and I'm quick with my reactions).

I used them to replace [Defile Enchantments] and [Desecrate Enchantments] which, while some feel aren't worth using despite their armor-ignoring dmg, I've actually had great success at using (even in PvP).

Currently, my bar looks like this:

[current build;OAVCY6xDbYMAHch2h9QeYJA]
(dmg actually higher than shown moused-over here)

[Parasitic Bond] is great, except that if you happen to be taking a lot of dmg while you're waiting for it to either reach it's end, or a creature/person to die or remove it to receive health back, it can lead to you waiting for nothing if you're killed in the mean while.

[Insidious Parasite] is also great, as long as the enemy is attacking and you're having health returned to you that at least comes close to equaling the dmg you're taking.

I could use some suggestions for skills from Prophecies, Factions and EoTN campaigns (nothing from Nightfall) that might make this build a little more "self-sufficient" in terms of health management.

[Spiteful Spirit] is the core focus, and getting it cast multiple times, along with [Insidious Parasite] for both dmg and health, but it just feels like I could do something a little better, perhaps using Blood, though I'm not sure how.

My wife also runs an SS build (which she loves) and I'd like to make it just a bit better in terms of health management and dmg.

Any/all suggestions would be greatly appreciated, just remember, nothing from the Nightfall campaign.

Thanks much!

P.S.
1) Does [Enfeebling Blood] effect just physical dmg? Or spells as well?

Just as a remider, I'm not looking to massively change my build, just perhaps change out one or two skills for something that replenishes health while also doing dmg, ideally.

Ariena Najea · Jan 26, 2009, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Whenever I use a [[Spiteful Spirit] build, I always bring [[Reckless Haste]. Increased the rate of attack (and therefore the damage from SS), and helps to safeguard the team as well with the miss-chance. Remember that in HM, the monsters are maxed out on attack speed, so the normal drawback doesn't even apply! You may also want to consider adding [[Mark of Pain] and/or [[Barbs] in your build if you are bringing minions or physical attackers.

As for health, you have a few options. It's a shame you don't have Nightfall, because one of the best Necro skills imo is [[Signet of Lost Souls]. In any case, if your team build seems to kill foes 1-2 at a time, I'd suggest speccing a little into Death Magic and bringing [[Soul Feast]. Alternatively, you could take Ritualist for your secondary. The Restoration Magic line features some great heals including [[Spirit Light]. You can also take advantage of the other useful skills such as [[Weapon of Warding] and [[Death Pact Signet].

In answer to your question at the end regarding [[Enfeebling Blood] caused plain weakness. Weakness has a couple effects; first it reduces the base damage (ie 19-35 for a hammer) of attacks by 66%. Note that this does not affect bonuses from attack skills such as [[Power Attack]. Secondly, it reduces all non-zero attributes by 1. So technically, this doesn't slightly power down spell casters, but it isn't enough to make a significant difference.

-Makai- · Jan 26, 2009, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Your build looks fine to me. Personally, I'd swap [parasitic bond] for [foul feast] to add a little more utility to the build.

Age · Jan 26, 2009, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Mine is similar except I don't use archane acho all Necro and I don't use descreate,defile and enfeebling.I use spinal shivers,life siphon and res sig.I use minor in curses which does me fine at 14 10 in SR 4 in blood.

I have taken out many bosses with this all the avatars and more.I haven't really pvped with it that much.

Bobby2 · Jan 26, 2009, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Blood Magic is crap (alas), so don't bother with it. Good builds abound for N/Rt or N/Mo, but you'd lose your second copy of SS. Then again odds are you won't notice the difference between 3 or 4 copies (partywide) much. Could also swap out some enchantment hate to make it fit.

avilia · Jan 26, 2009, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

However, I'm looking for improvement upon my SS build, mainly in the realm of health management, but dealing dmg simultaneously (if possible).

Personally, I believe that this approach is wrong. As a necro, health management is never your job. As a curse necro, doing damage is your job. A necro should stay away from the frontlines and if he gets damaged, it's a monk's (or other healer's) job to keep you alive.

I suggest you read this page. It offers a lot of insight on this particular build:
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/Me_SS_Nuker

Cebe · Jan 26, 2009, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Your build looks like it's suffering from "toybox syndrome". I used to do the same. It looks like you've for all the Curses skills you can get your hands on and formed them into a build. Good to see Enfeebling Blood in there, but you should try to make it work more for you by giving your heroes builds which work well with Weakness.

Spiteful Spirit is OK, Insidious Parasite and Enfeebling Blood are good. I'd use Desecrate OR Defile, but not both. Suffering is poor AoE degen, and Parasitic Bond is OK as a cover hex, but in PvE areas of no hex removal I don't see much point in it - your Monks should be able to keep you alive without Parasitic Bond.

Arcane Echo...hmm, I'm undecided about this. It costs a lot of energy to copy a skill which also costs a lot of energy. You're spending 45 energy on 2 hexes...seems like a lot, not to mention Arcane Echo has a horrid recharge. I'd rather use one copy of SS and pack a little more support. You could consider skills such as [[Serpent's Quickness] or a hero with [[Weapon of Quickening], which improve the recharge of all spells, not just copying one.

I am a bit anti-EchoSS for the reasons stated above, even if it does kill a group fast, the initial energy output and recharge times put me off.

If you want health gain, I'd go /Rt for Restoration skills. These will also benefit other members of your party.

Maybe something like:
[Spiteful [email protected]][Insidious [email protected]][Enfeebling [email protected]][Defile [email protected]][Necrosis][Weapon of [email protected]][Mend Body and [email protected]][Signet of Lost [email protected]]

Not sure about Necrosis and Signet of Lost Souls. You could easily substitute these for [Death Pact Signet], [Weaken Armor], [Reckless Haste], [Life], whatever tickles your fancy. Where enchantments are a nuisance and are better removed substitute [Rip Enchantment] for [Defile Enchantments] (such occaisions might be [[Mark of Protection] monks, [[Protective Spirit], [[Critical Defenses], [[Mending] Wammos). As for attributes, I'd use Curses: 12 + 1 + 1, Restoration: 10, Soul Reaping: 8 + 1.

Tzalaran · Jan 26, 2009, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Arcane Echo is expensive, slow, and only truely useful in places like UW/FoW in a 2 man 55/SS team. for normal use, i'd drop it in favor of other things, and look into getting a curses 40/40 wand offhand set. (can also carry a high energy set and staff with +1 curses 20% wrap imo)

Barbs, Mark of Pain should always be on the bar if you group with physicals, especially a MM who uses bone fiends. i'm a big fan of Suffering because of its large AoE as a cover hex, although it is a bit expensive for this. When using Insidous Parasite, be sure to target physicals with high attack rates in somewhat this order: War, dervish/sin, paragon/ranger, casters. this will ensure to give you a decent rate of healing while forcing the target to stop attacking or put pressure on their monks themselves. (most mobs in PvE will kill themselves i've noticed)

enfebling blood, weaken armor, necrosis, and the Kurzik signet are all good choices to round it out, and that ignores most secondaries. Rt and Mo are good options if looking for self heals, but generally your monks should have you as a healing priority and you shouldn't have to worry about self healing.

there are some great skills in the blood magic line, but the self heals aren't that great. Order of Pain and Dark Fury are both solid skills, but they don't fit well on an SS bar.

make sure that your team assists in the type of damage you choose to do. if using barbs/mark of pain, make sure to have physicals and a MM to help trigger them. if using alot of single target expensive hexes, make sure there is another hexer along to help you cover. Signet of Lost souls from NF is probably the best self heal in the necro line, and its soul reaping linked so every necro can take it and make use of it... might be worth unlocking those skills on your account just for it...

hope this helps

Nodakim · Jan 26, 2009, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Blood Magic is crap (alas), so don't bother with it. Good builds abound for N/Rt or N/Mo, but you'd lose your second copy of SS. Then again odds are you won't notice the difference between 3 or 4 copies (partywide) much. Could also swap out some enchantment hate to make it fit.

Yup the BIP build is total crap,i dont get it why people with energy want BIPers in their team.Also the SV is total crap.

Anyway i run
SS+arcane echo+suffering+defile ench+dese ench+reckless haste
the other 2 skills i offten change- ss rebirth,pain inverter,necrosis,enfebling

legacyofkain85 · Jan 26, 2009, 02:17 PM // 14:17

or u could drop ss etirely and use [assassin's promise] with some pve only skills[you move like a dwarf],[finish him],[ebon vanguard assassin support],in combo with [barbs],[mark of pain] or u could use[mindbender]to speed up your casting time,cause sometimes 2 sec cast time is anoying.
Anyway the combinations are many but in a curses bar if u wantt o run ss than add
[enfeebling blood]-because this+blind is like daze for casters
[reckless haste]-makes mobs miss with atacks,atack faster thus take dmg from ss faster
[shadow of fear],[meekness]-it makes mobs atack slower which means less dmg to your party,its counterproductive with ss but somtimes u dont want the dmg but u want to disable the mob's physicals
[insidious parasite]-its good for multiple atackers
[rend enchantments]for deep enchant removal or[rip enchantment]for and ok enchant removal spell
[foul feast]+[plague sending]is also a nice combo but tbh your job is to hex and dmg not remove conditions
if u have physicals in your team (warriors,rangers,paragons,assassins or even minion army)strongly consider [barbs]and [mark of pain]

Shursh · Jan 26, 2009, 02:38 PM // 14:38

[spiteful spirit][reckless haste][enfeebling blood][barbs][mark of pain][rip enchantment][signet of lost souls][rebirth]

in a team with physicals, call target, boom, rinse and repeat

nebuchanezzar · Jan 26, 2009, 03:23 PM // 15:23

What type of teams do you normally play with? This is very important in what skills are useful for you. Do you use mostly caster based teams? If so put your left over points in Blood for [[Blood Ritual] and maybe [[Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom] for example.

Do you run with an MM or lots of physical damage(War,Ass,Ranger,Para,Derv) then skills like [[Barbs] [[Mark of Pain] and [[Rigor Mortis] are more beneficial.

What skills do you have? What PvE only skills do you have available?

Choose either [[Parasitic Bond] or [[Suffering] as they both do the same basic job which is cover hex duty. In general Suffering is preferable to force the enemy AI to remove hexes but NOT your main hexes(ie Spiteful.)

I do not recommend [[Insidious Parasite] or [[Reckless Haste] at all. Neither does enough for the energy cost imo. Both of those slots can find better uses for your team.

You only have 3 main skills for an SS bar:[[Spiteful Spirit], [[Enfeebling Blood], and [[Parasitic Bond] or [[Suffering] leaving 4-5(depending on if you slot a rez) skill slots open to adjust to the team/area.

You mentioned that you have a wife who also likes to play an SS bar. If you team together often then I would drop Arcane Echo and each of you simply cast your SS's(on different targets of course) and other hexes as needed.

So, for example, lets assume you and your wife are playing and you have mostly casters but it includes at least one MM or some physical damage.
[skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill] [skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill] [skill]Suffering[/skill] [skill]Barbs[/skill] [skill]Mark of Pain[/skill] [skill]Ebon Battle Standard of Honor[/skill] OPEN and Rez or Rigor for example on one.
[skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill] [skill]Weaken Armor[/skill] [skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill] [skill]Blood Ritual[/skill] [skill]Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom[/skill] [skill]Rend Enchantments[/skill] OPEN and Rez or something.
That gives both physical and caster support the two of you. Remember that the basic shell is just Spiteful and a cover hex of some kind. The rest can and should change depending on the team and area. Maybe you need a [[Ward of Stability] to combat KD's, or [[Heal Party] or some extra healing from the Restoration rit line.
Edit - Removed Necrosis(says OPEN where I had it before). Good luck and have fun.

Improvavel · Jan 26, 2009, 07:05 PM // 19:05

With an SS build, what you need to know is that [[Spiteful Spirit] is most likely the least useful of the bunch, unless you party is relying on such a slow skill to kill.

[[Enfeebling Blood] is the star of an SS build. Cast it first and keep everyone weakened.

[[Barbs] and [[Mark of pain] are great with minions or physical attackers.

[[Splinter Weapon] or [[Great Dwarf Weapon] are also great with physical attackers.

Xenomortis · Jan 27, 2009, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Your current build only has three skills that I'd recommend keeping.
First off, get rid of [Arcane Echo] - you honestly don't need this.

You suffer from a lack of [Mark of Pain] - honestly, it's stupidly powerful if placed correctly in a mob. Just make sure you have a few physicals with you (a MM works wonders). With good placement and target calling, I cannot think of a more damaging skill.

[Suffering] is too expensive for too little gain, I recommed getting rid of it.
[Enfeebling Blood] is very useful - physical attackers won't hurt you as much and it slightly reduces the effectiveness of enemy skills (weakness lowers all attributes by 1). It's cheap and recharges quickly enough and has a nice AoE.
[Barbs] - not as powerful as MoP, but useful to have around. Cast on targets to make them die quicker.
[Reckless Haste] - synergises very well with SS, but not so well with Insidous Parasite. Still, causes SS to do more damage and your enemies to hit less often (which is very useful), certainly more useful than Suffering.
[Insidious Parasite] - can do nice damage against Assassin's and Warriors. Dervs will often really hurt themselves too. Not necessary, but I recommend it.
[Defile Enchantments] and it's clone I wouldn't bother taking. They have a nice area of effect and do decent damage, but I'd prefer to take the other curses.
[Parasitic Bond] is only useful as a self heal and... well you shouldn't need to worry about that. Just make sure your monks are good.
[Signet of Lost Souls] is useful energy managment and has a small health gain attached.

I strongly recommend you do NOT bring blood skills. They shouldn't be necessary. If you must, bring Blood Ritual, but don't devote any significant amount of points into it and don't bring a rune.

[Spiteful Spirit][Reckless Haste][Insidious Parasite][Mark of Pain][Barbs][Enfeebling Blood]

SS and MoP are the only two I'd say you should always take on a SS bar. But I'd also say and Curses necro should always take MoP.

As for PvE skills, the Ebon Wards are handy party support.
[Necrosis] is nice reliable, cheap single target damage.
[Pain Inverter] is useful, but I find it's duration a bit short lived and seldom bother with it.
Or whatever you really want.

There's a lot of necro threads like this, take a look in those.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Maybe something like:
[Spiteful [email protected]][Insidious [email protected]][Enfeebling [email protected]][Defile [email protected]][Necrosis][Weapon of [email protected]][Mend Body and [email protected]][Signet of Lost [email protected]]

Not sure about Necrosis and Signet of Lost Souls. You could easily substitute these for [Death Pact Signet], [Weaken Armor], [Reckless Haste], [Life], whatever tickles your fancy. Where enchantments are a nuisance and are better removed substitute [Rip Enchantment] for [Defile Enchantments] (such occaisions might be [[Mark of Protection] monks, [[Protective Spirit], [[Critical Defenses], [[Mending] Wammos). As for attributes, I'd use Curses: 12 + 1 + 1, Restoration: 10, Soul Reaping: 8 + 1.

I recommend against bringing the Rit skills. You shouldn't really be trying to heal and curse at the same time. Focus on one or the other and you'll be much more beneficial to the team. Once all your curses are up, you may feel like you have nothing to do, but they wear off quick enough and situations change. The restoration skills take points away from Soul Reaping and you'll want the energy.
Also, no Mark of Pain in that build

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shursh

[spiteful spirit][reckless haste][enfeebling blood][barbs][mark of pain][rip enchantment][signet of lost souls][rebirth]

in a team with physicals, call target, boom, rinse and repeat

Something like that, but you shouldn't need Rebirth. If teammates die, then something like Resurrection Chant is better for a mid-fight res. Only bring rebirth if your party wipes a lot and if that happens, it's time to look into your team's composition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebuchanezzar

What type of teams do you normally play with? This is very important in what skills are useful for you. Do you use mostly caster based teams? If so put your left over points in Blood for [[Blood Ritual] and maybe [[Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom] for example.

The necromancer has best synergy with physicals and typically, physicals are better to have around than an excess in casters. Even with lots of casters, Blood Ritual is often a bit wasted as the energy gain is minimal at best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebuchanezzar

I do not recommend [[Insidious Parasite] or [[Reckless Haste] at all. Neither does enough for the energy cost imo. Both of those slots can find better uses for your team.

Reckless Haste is a damn sight better than Suffering, which you recommend taking later on. It has much stronger synergy with SS and helps your team by making monsters hurt them less. Worthwhile as an AoE hex, although it's use in HM is limited only to a reduction in hits.
Insidous Parasite is more of a personal thing, it's life steal effect is useful and can render a physical attacker harmless, especially if he's been weakened with Enfeebling blood. They'll also die after a while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebuchanezzar

You only have 3 main skills for an SS bar:[[Spiteful Spirit], [[Enfeebling Blood], and [[Parasitic Bond] or [[Suffering] leaving 4-5(depending on if you slot a rez) skill slots open to adjust to the team/area.

No, don't take Suffering and I can't advise taking Parasitic Bond. The main skills for an SS are really: SS, Enfeebling Blood, Reckless Haste (which is optional) and Mark of Pain (which every necro focusing in Curses should take).

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebuchanezzar

You mentioned that you have a wife who also likes to play an SS bar. If you team together often then I would drop Arcane Echo and each of you simply cast your SS's(on different targets of course) and other hexes as needed.

Drop Arcane Echo in any case.

Well that's a suitably long post. I wonder how much of it will be read and how much of it is redundant.

pingu666 · Jan 27, 2009, 06:50 PM // 18:50

[meekness] might be handy

Xenomortis · Jan 27, 2009, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

[meekness] might be handy

Not really. It slows attack speed and is therefore near useless for a necro build focusing on SS.
For a 15 energy AoE hex, [Reckless Haste] is a far better alternative for use with SS. It's AoE may be smaller, but it synergises better and still serves your team well.

Calista Blackblood · Jan 27, 2009, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

[meekness] might be handy

Slowing down SS's trigger rate? Even if it was needed(or used) [shadow of fear] is cheaper,faster recharge and sac free.

@OP.Read through Xen's post if you haven't already.That's pretty much spot on

Xenomortis · Jan 27, 2009, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

Read through Xen's post if you haven't already.That's pretty much spot on

This is starting to get a bit creepy...

Calista Blackblood · Jan 27, 2009, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

This is starting to get a bit creepy...

Just starting? This has been going on for a while

Kafiri_Mkorogai · Jan 28, 2009, 07:29 PM // 19:29

So, if I were to try running an SS necro (first time playing necro in the years I have played GW), what team build would you recommend? Would sabway work well? If so, would I keep the SS necro that sabway already has? Any way to prevent overlap?

My other question: My wife plays a Dervish, so I will obviously be bringing things like Barbs, Mark of Pain, etc. Would it also be beneficial to go /rit for something like Splinter Weapon, or should I just slap that on one of the sabway heroes and either direct their casting a bit or hope for the best?